Good morning, to those of you in the West, welcome to talking freight. I will be moderating, today's topic is strategics to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
Today's seminar is being recorded. Today we will have three presenters, Cheryl Bynum, Chris Frey, and Steve Winkelman.
Cheryl is -- worked for Environmental Protection Agency since the early 19 19 1990s.
Crjt interests, to develop, emerging technologies for commercial trucks. Developing test protocols that simulate real world, cleaner more efficient freight transport. Graduate of University of Michigan. Leaves in Ann Arbor, Michigan.
Chrissify is, teaches graduate on air quality, risk conducted research on measurement, modeling of real world use, emissions, joined N.C. STATE in nor.
Use of portable light duty gasoline vehicle, heavy duty diesel and non-road construction vehicles, , some of these projects included comparison of biodiesel, lifecycle inventory modeling.
Identification of best potential best practices, greenhouse gas, freight trans, Dr. Frey is -- reducing emissions associated with extended long haul trucks. Serve in numerous initial, international societies,
lead author for the governmental panel on climate change, gas inventories. Immediate past president for the site for risk analysis, member of American site of civil engineers. Holds, marks bs from -- p fad in energying and public policy.
Steve Winkelman has -- brings unique interdisciplinary approach. At the local, state, national and international levels, designing transportation greens house emissions, smart growth use planning, freight emissions
and emissions trading. He recently launched the CCAP -- on infrastructure and climate change, managed ICF Kaiser's Climate Wise work for -- designed, constructed, tested laboratory scale mag mag lev, p public, University of Minnesota.
I would like to go over logistical details, the seminar will last 90 minutes, final 30 minutes for question and answer. You can type into the small text box on the lower right side of screen. Send your question to everybody,
indicate who your question is for. I will start off the Question and Answer session with the questions typed into the chat box. Once we are through questions in the chat box the operator will give instructions on how to ask on the phone.
If you think of a question use the freight planning listserve regs an e-mail list, great forum for distribution of information. If you have not already joined the listserve,
the web address you can register is provided on the screen. I would like to remind you the session is being recorded, audio and visual portion will be posted to the talking freight website within the next week.
We encourage you to direct others to access the recorded seminar. PowerPoint presentation will be available within the next week.
Before we go ahead and get started on the topic of strategies to reduce freeness gas greenhouse gas from freight transportation, we will -- Ed is going to be providing a brief presentation, project of national and regional significance,
the notice of proposed rule making. Ed, I will let you go ahead.thank you Jennifer. I want to spend a few minutes talking about rule making on this program, we are reopened it. Section 13very 01 of SAFETY-LU,
projects to -- efficient movement of people, goods throughout the U.S. and improve the health and welfare of the national economy. The secretary of transportation, to issue regulations to establish the evaluation
and rate ling guidelines for selecting proposed projects.
In the late summer the federal highway administration published a notice of rule making for the program.
After the close of original comment period f what performed -- a number of subject areas were not commented on, stake holders didn't respond. Made the decision to reopen for additional time.
We feel the reopening of the mprm will help us receive the most full comment from the broadest group of stakeholders. We would those interesting in commenting may not have had the opportunity during the original comment period,
reopen until February 9, 2007. We think this additional time will allow additional parties to review discussion of the proposed regulations and allow submission to complete response.
Steel bridges will have The map addresses the rating -- project proposals. Specifically seeking input on these.
Also interested in 500ing out, using map m to provide specific comment to qualify quantitative cages -- full funding granting agreement.
We note rule making process does not ally to projects currently -- SAFETY-LU. All authorized are fully allocated to the 25 projects, no funds available for distribution beyond these projects.
The freight -- fund available in the future.
The nprm and comment form can be found at http
As I mentioned, the comment period for this proposed rule making will close on February 92007. We will accept late comments to the extent practicable. If you have questions, please see our website at www.opf.FHWA.gov/freight
or contact myself at 366- or Ed at D.O.T..gov. Thank you and we hope you will provide comments during this rule making.
Ed's contact information is on the screen, and I will bring it back up at the end of all the presentations, introduction slide will have all the presenters's addresses.
We will turn it to topic for today's seminar, strategies to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Our first propertier is Cheryl Bynum, if you have questions type them into the chat box. I will let you get started.
BYNUM: Thank you for joining us today. I think my presentation was loaded backwards.
I will talk about the smart way transport partnership. Designation are the cleanest and efficient options. For passenger vehicles we have the smart way designation for vehicles, the website on the screen.
We're plan planning a similar designation for -- have a partnership that, for smart way, a commitment by partners to conserve fuel and reduce emissions.
As you can see, it's free to join, anyone can join any size from mom and pop owner operator to the largest trucking fleets in the United States. Companies join, the next slide shows railroads have joined, all the Class 1,
a affiliate partners, truck stop associations, other organization whose goal is to promote partnership and educate the public and commercial partners about its exist existence.
This is what we accomplished in the three years we have been in existence. How does it work? We reduce emissions, improve air quality, reduce CO2, and has direct impact on the nation's --
Why would companies like to join, they want to know the environmental footprint. Rail companies like to join, improves public image, able to track emission s and reduce fuel consumption. Affiliates enjoy tools for membership,
public recognition for taking those steps. We developed a model called freight logistics, energy tracking, fleet performance model. This quantifies the benefits for carriers, things they can do, adopting the fleet,
to improve the effectiveness, clean livens of fleet. And helps shippers -- and measure virtual environmental footprint, as well as strategies.
Introduce reduction policies, encourage carriers to do full truck loads instead of partial, switch from electric fork lifts. These can be for new and existing truck and locomotives.
We show them how to quantify the benefits of idle reduction, low rolling resistance tires, increasing intermodal operation, adding devices that reduce toxin par tick late and other strategies.
EPA did some of its own testing on these -- we not only surveyed existing literature to do the quantitative cages,
we also did our own testing on long duration truck -- folks attending these Webinars in the past for FHWA we had colleagues talk about what we were doing in the idling arena, and we found significant fuel savings
and toxin reduction. Tested over the road truck, 42 tests, six classes, eight trucks, drive cycles, monitor.
Tested with and without different configurations of low rolling resistance, single-wide tires, and -- demonstrated a 10% per mile fuel savings on average. Reductions,
not able to test -- Environmental Protection Agency is still in the -- mobile particulate -- control equipment done through voluntary diesel emissions retrofit program.
We combine all these technologies tested into what we call the Smart Way upgrade kit.
Here's an example of what a smart way upgrade kit -- lower rolling resistance tires, improved -- some form of after treatment filter. Other applications we can offer kits from for non-road, port entries, trains, locomotives.
These are some of the idle reduction technologies, no one, by the way -- so it can be unique to the fleet, the fleet can pick which technology works best in terms of operation and cost. Systems by battery, diesel, APU motor generator,
truck stop amplification.
On the next slide you can see one design for what we call a boat tail design, the green helps reduce the pressure drop at end of vehicle to save fuel. Here,
example on the Wal-Mart trailer shown you have both the trailer side -- alt side of trailer and different device that will be a front device that the tractor would go in front of that, cut the turbulence between the tractor, trail or,
in the Whole Foods example -- low rolling resistance tires, we tested single-wide, one tire at end of axle instead of two. Most 18-wheelers have dual tire configuration at each axle exempt except the steer axle.
This is a partner showing single wide on tractor, require special wheels made by special manufacturers, aluminum, use of hi-strength aluminum increases fuel savings because of the weight savings over steel.
They have lower weight steel now that are also offering significant weight savings.
The exhaust after-treatments verified primarily particulate, oxidation catalysts, the estimated costs in particulate.
Here's an example of what the upgrade kit can do for the truck fleet in terms of fuel savings. You can see if you have a loan payment of $323 to purchase the p.m. filter, tires, arrow kit and heater as reduction technology,
monthly fuel savings of 53throor you 0 you will have cash in your pocket at end of the month.Environmental Protection Agency has been working with small business administration to come up with financing options.
For the larger fleets the fuel savings were compelling enough and are moving in this direction, but some are the smaller, too much to swing, over two or three years they would be saving fuel,
just couldn't come up with the up-front capital. We work the with SBA to work out express lanes, offered through several different financial entities, focus on smaller trucking companies who lack capital. Relatively fast processing,
no collateral required, easy and flexible long-terms. You see where to apply for some of these loans to small trucking companies.
There are also a number of state financing programs that have -- financing option on the Smart Way kit, , under the financing page you will find more about this under the section that talks about federal grants.
Our next step Environmental Protection Agency would like to do, to come up with larger pools of money, states working together, say along a large corridor like I-95, pool infrastructure bank money, create large scale multi-state projects.
This would be very effective.
We looked at different state infrastructure banks, found a number have available capital, any number that fall along the freight interstates.
This is something Environmental Protection Agency is currently investigating with state partners.
We also are looking into creating sip. It will address the use of these technologies on class A combination trucks in highway operation.
SmartWay has also reached out to a number of publications, industry publications, general public publications to let people know about the trains. Some benefits.
I should tell you that most of these pub li publications have been done for Environmental Protection Agency at no cost to the taxpayer. They have been complementary.
In the fall we had our first partner awards ceremony with Smartway awards, 24 partners presented with a ed award.
The national association of environmental management, the trucking companies attend the American trucking association's annual conference, this year in Texas. We didn't want to bias toward the larger fleets,
we separated out awards to include large for-hire and small to medium size, privately owned, logistic, and affiliates. We have a space on our website to recognize the award winners
and more information to tell how the awards were determined.
Recently the administrator of Environmental Protection Agency announced Smart Way grow and go, 25% of partners will begin using renewable fuel. There's the website for Grow and Go.
Ethanol not, biodiesel and other fuel.
The contact information for Smart can the dap Way. Call the phone center, e-mail, call me directly. As Jennifer energized when she shared by bio, my main function is testing of technologies.
I will be happy to talk to you about anything. We think it's a terrific program. We find most exhilarating that we are helping industry save money while we are reducing CO2 emissions and improving air quality.
It's very gratifying for us and I appreciate you giving me the chance to come talk with you about if. Thank you.
Jennifer: Thank you. I encourage you, if you think of questions for Cheryl to continue typing them in. Next presenter is is Steve Winkelman.
During his presentation we will share a website with everybody, once he brings up the website I will set it up so participants can toggle full-screen mode on and off.
Steve, you can go ahead.
Thank you very much. Good afternoon everyone. It's funny not to be able to see you nodding at me. I am getting used to the web conferences. I will see many of you next week in D.C. what I will present here are two things.
The CCAP transportation emission s guide book and freight solutions. A nice follow-on from Chris' presentation.
I want to acknowledge Greg Dierkers, he was unable to make the call today.
A meeting in June 2005 bringing together 75 stake stakeholders, looking at trucks, rail, marine, a big chunk of the problem. I will show you on our website where to find the presentations from the meeting. We had speakers on each area.
We calculated greenhouse gas savings in 2025, similar to Chris. The flavor, one example before going to the guide book, Chris and I haven't had a chance to share assumptions. His was much more detailed. We did a rough analysis,
what the greenhouse gas savings we could expect to be reasonable.S 2025 framework as well. You can see if you look at the bottom row; for trucks about a 13% reduction and a shift to rail is included. Rail emissions remain flat
and total emissions about a 12% reduction. I think Chris showed a 10% compared to current levels. Similar overall, a little comment down here to put into context,
uncertainty about what other countries will do there's a general consensus we need to get to 1990 levels or below to eliminate climate --
In the right direction, not all the way there. The theme with transportation, it's tough to get below 1990 levels.
Breaking down by categories, distributed fairly evenly across different types of measures, technology, biofuel, intermodal shift, consistent with what Chris put together, haven't done a detailed comparison.
But shift to rail is so attractive. We dug in on that a little, it's important to look at. We have a bit more of a policy approach than individual operator approach. This is the kind of thing that would require a public policy response.
This is a DOE forecast of freight truck fuel economy, emissions. Vmt, this red curve, you can see -- total emission says increasing, meaning it's important to see if there's anything we can do on the vmt growth, obviously modal shift.
Jumping to the third bullet on the slide we see rail uses on average about 14% as much energy as trucks per ton mile. That range depends on commodity, from 8 to 50%,
clearly rail makes sense for certain heavy commodities that aren't time sensitive.
If you look at corridor, say there's a lot of truck traffic going in the same direction, let's put it on rail. Destinations and commodities could be different, but the potential shift, looking at commodities,
combinations that make sense,
we assume for our calculation about a 10% savings, reflected in the slide earlier. In other words, 10% of growth in trucks would be shifted to rail. Something that sounds modest, significant, and shouldn't be threatening to truckers,
we are talking about shifting growth. Plenty of trucks on the road.
You had a present presentation -- a couple of years ago -- a freight rail bottom line report, interesting numbers important in the context of freight solution dialogue. They saw potential savings of truck dmt of 15 to 16%,
from the forecast, not current levels, with expected private investments of $130 0 mill billion, not trivial, probably not impossible.
Net savings, probably the most interesting point, net savings of $400 billion to $1 $1 trillion. In order to make this happen, a clear national freight policy would be needed with coordination with private sect or, federal, local to that.
let me give you a sense of some of the findings from the meeting. We spend a lot of time going scob technologies across the mode. A policy perspective participant saw the need, looking at some of the infrastructure planning,
operations and logistics. The first bullet, technologies are critical in the short term, exposure to pollution, working with some of the ports, LA, big lawsuit, short-term cleanups, park particulates, the break down,
one of the presenters put it, "economic space," "political space."if imports are doubling, tripling over the next 20, 30 years, is there sufficient rail to make it happen.
If there's a bridge that needs to be double stacked in Montana to get from LA to Chicago, who should pay for that? The folks in LA? Montana?
Real need for the national planning. Around the same time of this meeting the D.O.T. was putting together national freight framework presented last year, update this year, clearly progress in that direction,
but a real sense that national plan was needed, supported by policies that could be implemented at state and local level. No way It will happen without coordinated planning.
Let me shift and gears and talk about our guide book. The transportation emissions guide book is a collection of -- based on works work with half dozen different states. Climb at action plans, analysis for these,
wouldn't it be nice if someone gave us money to put this together, we want others to have the . With support from the Environmental Protection Agency, and others we collected information that is quite helpful.
Our audience is primarily state and local lawmakers, the level of detail in here will probably not be satisfying to you. If you are a policy maker who wants to say how much can I save in terms of emissions fuel costs, particular project,
how to compare, that's what it's for. Points to resources, FHWA tools who want to dig into more.
I will give you a quick idea of what's in the guide book and then we will see it live. Each section of the guide book, policy briefs, 40 of those, emissions calculator, probably the most important piece,
allows users to customize with local data, calculations on what had savings are a achievable.
Each policy brief describes the policy, quantitative cages methodology, where we got the information, some empirical, some more modeling, technical references.
Part one of the guidebook posted about year and a half ago no coss on focuses on travel , land use transit, smart growth, et cetera.
Part two looks at vehicle technologies, passenger, freight, intercity travel.
Greenhouse gas standards, biofuels, mode shift.
We again allowed comparison. This slide, I hope you can read it, this is based on our default data across measures looking, say, for hypothetical state, what, how these policies add up.
The California greenhouse gas standards come in first. Comprehensive smart growth second. Clearly this will depend on local fleet characteristics and assumption about aggressiveness and policies.
Important to understand where you get the biggest bang for the buck, effort to achieve reductions.
Sample policy brief here I think would be more interesting to see in the guide book itself but this gives you a sense of what's in there. Describing the measure, showing steps for quantifying and details assumptions,
results in this case,
looking at 100 engines, savings of 10,000 tons of CO2 per year and a half million dollars. The guide book can be found there, and I am going to go ahead and share my website and see if I get this to work.
Jennifer you have instructions about full screen?
You can click on the full screen button, if you want to turn it off, click on full creen screen again.
You are looking at our website, the spotlight box has the login function, I will skip that, folks can we the mouse moving around?
The user would log in here, the guide book is available on a couple of different fore mats, I will show you, there's an online version of the guide book. Integrated version that you can off load, off line version, flash enabled,
and a pdp, part one and two in the Excel spreadsheet.
I am going to this version, extractible program that are you positives runs on your computer. The policy matrix, background information.the policy briefs part 1 and 2, policy, leave not carrying much freight on bikes. Shifting to part 2,
to look at what the measures are here. I talked about these, more on passenger vehicles here. Freight, and intercity travel, struck stop electrification.
Footnotes where everything comes from, what is the measure. Policy quantitative Poll quantitative cages, 1500-tons of CO2 a year, the NOx, criteria on per day basis, more typical way of looking. You see this little calculator link,
on my computer I shift to the spreadsheet area, downloaded, extracted, shows the emissions calculator, same information, you can go through the different measures and either tab over to the next tab or hyper hyperlinked.
You can see that we have our default data here shaded blue, this example I mentioned before, looking at hundred ports, utilize 34% with such and such a price of diesel. The user could put in their own data here.
We think fuel prices are going up, just the calculations. The savings are shown over here in terms of -- you saw the format before. CO2, fuel savings, default data, and for the regional date.
We have default emission factors in here, as well as fuel prices, can all be updated by the user on this screen or overall sheet.
We deliberately didn't do a summation slide, some don't make sense together. This is more of a comparison table, I call it policy comparison matrix. Separate calculator for part 1.
This is part 2 for the travel demand stuff you can look at.
Let me go back to the guide book, give you more sense. We have the calculator here, talk about co-benefits, congestion, air pollution, et cetera, implementation issues, case studies of where a particular measure has been implemented,
resources to look at in terms of particular studies, link to SmartWay work, where to get more information and footnotes.
They look similar.
The policy comparison matrix looks like the summary you saw before in the spreadsheet.
The last thing I will show you, the background noise, overall information on transportation emissions, freight emissions, both CO2 as well as criteria pollutants, diesel reduction milestones,
good tools for those who want to learn more and for those who don't care to learn more. There's a modeling resource for cars and some on freight as well. I think that gives you a good sense of what's in the guide book.
I am going to switch back to the presentation, and maybe Jennifer can help me back up. That would do it for now. You can see the contact information as soon as it's loaded back up.
Thank you for your attention and I look forward to questions folks may have.
Thank you Steve. I do see we have a few questions typed in. I will start with those questions and we can open the phone lines for more questions. If you don't want to type in I will open up the phone lines.
As soon as I ask the first question I am going to, while the presenter is asking I will bring up a few poll questions to help us get a better idea, improve Talking Freight for the future.
How many seminars you participating in, in 2006. If you didn't participate if any you don't have to answer.
If you did, we definitely encourage your responses.
I see questions for Chris, and a question for Cheryl.
We will start with the question for Cheryl any progress on tax concerns for mom and pop truckers. The
The upgrade kit we are talking about, gave example in my presentation, that was geared toward -- the aero dynamic strategies, can be somewhat effective at lower speeds are most effective at high speeds.
The lower resistance tires can be almost as effective, don't have the same exponential relationship as rolling drag does, the reality is most of the single four-axle trucks only use single tires anyway.
Replacing smaller with wider would actually not be a good idea. They are primarily line haul trucks.
Second question, the fleet calculator, the individual fleets can check the benefit of the strategies for their specific fleet, that model is divided into line haul and short haul. So a trucker of any size,
we actually have a smaller version of that, smarter version of the model based on what types of strategy, types of freight operations are generally going to be more amenable to employing.
I don't actually know what was meant by the question on progress on tax concerns on mom and pop. That's not our main area of work. We provided comments on tax relief,
weight waivers for APUs when the energy bill was being written Environmental Protection Agency does, when requested by different agencies, provide our perspective and our perspective has been fairly consistent,
that we think these devices ought to be exempted from the weight -- weight waiver, taxes, ought to have tax relieve, but it's not something we can effect directly, except for being asked.
For the hybrid tax incentives I mentioned in the energy bill legislation there, our contribution to that is to develop fuel economy test procedure and assist the Trash ree as they request it.
That question came from Steve, if you want to elaborate more on that --
Steve, you still on the line?
Steve: We had work in California, weight project in LA, some concern that for a mom-and-pop trucker, operators some of the worst polluters, tough to get at, loss of income, some of the funding for the kits,
grants were seen as increasing income, had a tax impact they couldn't quite afford or didn't quite understand. Sorry if the question was obtuse.
Yorks okay. In that case yes, I think we working with the Small Business Administration, we wanted to move away from grants. There isn't enough money for everyone who would mer yelt merit a granting. The loan program -- the drayage,
that's a concern, working with the University of Texas, Texas -- those of you who don't know, different entities look at reduction in the state of Texas,
to design a test that could be used to test different things you could do for dray trucks. Provided technical assistance to them for that test, currently under way. We may in the future, provided we get resources,
follow-up with additional testing. On the website we have strategies for port operations, things you could do with dray trucks, policy perspective, technical perspective. The dray truck is going to be a tough nut to crack, though.
Next question, I want to encourage everybody if you are not responded to, do respond to the poll questions on the screen. Next question is for Chris, there any possible ways to reduce the initial cost of equipment,
such as having companies that participate in testing or trials, have the equipment paid for through special funding resources?
Chris Frey: I am not sure I am the right person to answer the question. It would be a laudable goal to identify goals for ways that early a 2K079ers adopters can share, reduce the risk through demonstration program,
make it practicable that potential adopters could see how it performs in the real world. But I am not the right person to say whether such things exist. Maybe somebody else.
Any of the other presenters have thoughts?this is Cheryl.
We had in the past, in the years, the three, nearly three years of SmartWay we have given away a lot of money, grants, for demonstration projects, fleets put on SmartWay upgrade kit, we collect data. Have done that in the past.
The reality is, there's 600,000, including small fleets, every single one of them would benefit from the technologies. There just isn't enough money. We can't drag them through grants, looking at alternative incentives, like loans,
working with sip caps, the tax and energy bill to help provide a sustainable source of financial assistance to these trucking fleets and other types of transport entities.
Steve Winkelman: I don't have anything to add audio to that, except a question, identify something easy to do. What is the price tag for this? I don't know if I will call it low-hanging fruit,
but the full potential of many issues that payback in a couple of years, therefore are from a societal and policy perspective, clearly no regrets and that benefits, but not enough cash up front, what's the price tag.
We do work on overall design of climate policy. If this stuff pays for itself, that's really important to look at. What had would it take to get there. All these funding sources, what's possible with existing efforts.
How do we get at this full potential. So much of this makes so much sense.
Chris, another question for you, did you evaluate any operational strategies. If so, what were your main findings?
We did look at some operational strategies. Most of what we looked at turns out to be technology based. In the truck mode, adjusting the load profile on a flatbed trailer, air mode, traffic management, trimming non-essential weight.
We didn't, at least not yet, stratify results comby s by operational versus technology. I think in some ways it's harder to cation access the operational strategies than technology. An area where more could be done to look at them,
come up with a more extensive set of assessment than we have to date. My qualitative comment, clearly they are important,
and the ones we looked at have the potential to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from a given mode on the order of at least several%. That's actually fairly good. If any one best practice can achieve a few% reduction,
implement many of them together, that's where you get the biggest potential for large-scale reductions in gas emissions.
Anyway, I think beyond that I am 23409 sure not sure I can say much more.
Steve, a question for you. What feedback have you gotten on use of emissions calculator and guide book tools. Any way of tracking input so far?
Steve: Great question. In terms of feedback.
To years ago there was a flurry of activity from state, local, international, on the tool, wanting to know when part 2 would be available. It's finally up on the website. By comment reflected before,
folks with expertise in a particular area, the level of detail in questions, models, someone running a four-step model, calculations here will be pretty simple. For others, state energy planners,
folks putting together climate action plans, helpful to use as a starting point. How does this add up? What does this save?
Part 2, just haven't done full announcement. You are the first folks to get the web link. We will find out more. In terms of tracking, we didn't have a -- function in part one.
Put one in for part 2 vehicle technology, fuel. We will have a better sense of who our users are. In terms of track being impacts, loans we I s I don't think we can credibly do that. Identify, tell you which state,
but I can't credibly take credit for reductions.
I hope it helps them along the way.
Thank you. That's all the questions I see typed in. Any questions here?
In the room at Federal Highway with several people.
I will open up the phone lines to see if you have questions on the phone.if you would like to ask a question press star 1, unmute, to withdraw press star 2. One moment please.
At this time I am showing no questions, ma'am.
I have one quick question for Cheryl. Is it still called an 18-wheeler?
It's a 10 wheeler with the -- tires. We still all it an 18-wheeler.
On that note we will wrap up, with some humor. I want to thank all three presenters for three great presentations today. I will leave the poll questions up a few more minutes, if I didn't get a chance to respond please do.
To the presenters as well.
I want to thank everybody for attending today's seminar. The recorded version will be available within the next week along with the PowerPoints and -- I did type the -- into the chat area.
I will send an e-mail out to everybody in attendance to let you know when they are available. If you did not register in advance and you want the follow-up information, send an e-mail with address, organization, job, position,
I did include my e-mail address higher up in the chat area. The next seminar is February 21, titled freight demand modeling. If you haven't done so, I encourage you to sign up for the seminar.
Those of you who attended in the past there's a new web address for registration, the one that's on the slide, showing in the chat area. I also even courage you to join the listserve. Enjoy the rest of your day everybody.
Thank you. Your call has concluded.