View the April 18, 2018 seminar recording
Jennifer Symoun
Good afternoon or good morning to those of you to the West. Welcome to the Talking Freight Seminar Series. My name is Jennifer Symoun and I will moderate today’s seminar. Today’s topic is Alternative Fuel and Electric Freight Trucks: What’s on the Road Today and What’s on the Horizon.
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Today we’ll have two presentations, given by:
Unfortunately our planned third speaker from the Pepsi Corporation had an unforeseen conflict and is no longer able to present today.
Our first presenter is Stacy Noblet from ICF. Stacy is a Principal in ICF’s Climate, Energy Efficiency, and Transportation line of business. For nearly 15 years, Stacy has provided technical and management support to federal, state, and local initiatives that aim to increase the use of clean vehicles and fuel-efficient technologies in the on-road transportation sector. She has worked with the freight industry through the U.S. Department of Energy’s Clean Cities program as well as the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s SmartWay Transport Partnership.
Stacy Noblet
Thank you everyone for joining us today. I will be starting things off with an overview of alternative fuels in the transportation industry. My goal is to give you a basic understanding of alternative fuels, broadly. And then of course, some of the considerations that come with the fuels themselves. I will do a peek into what is a hazy crystal ball and look at some of the future vehicle offerings. And I would like to arm you and your colleagues with a few relevant programs.
At a high level, these are the alternative fuels that you will see most commonly in the freight industry. The first is the liquid and gas group, starting out with propane, it is a medium-duty fuel. You do see it in heavy-duty, but primarily in school buses. For this audience, it is not as relevant as some of the others. But I did want to mention it. Across the propane vehicle market, you see some dedicated vehicles, which means they only run on propane. There are some that can run on gas or propane. There are some retrofit options to repower existing vehicles to run on propane. Next, we have natural gas, which can be compressed, it's also referred to as CNG. Another category is renewable natural gas, which is biogas. We will hear a little bit more from Ruan on that.
There are about 65,000 natural gas vehicles operating, and some of the bigger fleets that use natural gas are Frito-Lay, UPS, Anheuser Busch, and some transport agencies. The heavy-duty, natural gas is about 2 to 3% of that market volume. That percentage is a lot higher in markets like refuse and transit as well. Within the natural gas world, you have dedicated vehicles that can only operate on natural gas, there are some biofuel that can switch between one another, or dual fuel, which can use diesel for ignition. The conversions are also an option here. It's not dominant in the freight industry, but it is worth mentioning.
Finally, biodiesel, is for all intents and purposes a drop-in fuel. There are different blend levels, so you blend biodiesel with conventional diesel, and percentages from 2% all the way up to 100%. Some states blend to them in a level of 2 to 5% into diesel used for transportation. All original equipment manufacturers approve the use of B5 or lower. Other blends need more research or testing to make sure that it is applicable for that vehicle. We will hear a little bit more about biodiesel from our next speaker.
Moving over into the electrification column, I will briefly mention hybrid, which has been around for some time. Hydraulic hybrid is worth mentioning. Plug-in electric includes the full electric, and the hybrid. The barriers as you can imagine, for meeting freight specifications, is the daily range, the upfront cost, the charging time, and the weight. We will get into that later.
Finally, the last box on the diagram is fuel-cell, which uses hydrogen storage to convert it to electricity. Then it can power the vehicle with the hydrogen fuel cell. This is of all the fuels here, the most future looking. There is a lot of uncertainty around vehicle offerings, and I will wrap things up with a look at what is available in the fuel-cell electric area.
I mentioned that there are key considerations using all these fuels, it's not a one size fits all situation. It really changes from fleet to fleet. As you will hear from Ruan, Pepsi and other fleets, look at all or multiple fuels and technologies. I wanted to run through some of the key considerations that a fleet will have to keep in mind when they are looking at alternative fuels and to what extent the fleet might need to convert to one of these. The fleet operations are obvious. You must consider the routes, and the duty cycle to understand how these technologies will work. I mentioned range, and that is certainly a consideration that goes into this part of the decision process. Of course, you must understand what vehicles and engines are even available. I will talk more about what is available now. There are OEM offerings, the conversions are less common in the heavy-duty space, but still a possibility.
Cost is all about the bottom line, so the upfront cost is a significant consideration. Not only on the vehicle side, but also in the fueling infrastructure, especially if the fleet is taking it on themselves. There are incentives available, and I will point to a resource later. Those may not be accessible to everyone, for example, tax credits are not something that a tax-exempt entity can take advantage of. But we are seeing more rebates and vouchers and incentive programs that can reduce and help put cash in the hood. All this needs to be taken into consideration in the total cost of ownership.
The fueling infrastructure is a consideration, also the fleet ownership, will they be leveraging the existing network of stations? Will they partner with another entity? It is all part of the decision process. Then there is other infrastructure. There are maintenance facilities, and whether those need to be retrofitted for fueling and for structure?
Moving into the people side of things. You would need to train the drivers to be familiar with the technology and understand the differences in operating and fueling. And then the maintenance technicians, whether it's training a fleet’s own technician, or understanding which existing networks they could tap into.
Finally, a layer over all of this, is what are the motivations? Why would an organization look at alternative fuels? Are there environmental targets? Are there financial decisions? We did see a lot more interest in fuels like natural gas when the fuel prices spiked in the 2000s. So, the cost fluctuation is a consideration. Maybe an organization is really interested in testing the technology and being a demonstration for their own organization and for the freight industry broadly.
I mentioned that I would get into some vehicle availability. We will start with the liquid and gas category. I did drop propane, because there is not much available for heavy-duty outside of the school bus market. Cummins Westport dominates the market, and here's their website from a couple days ago. You can see that Freightliner is a familiar name. Then there's also Peterbilt, and Volvo.
In terms of fueling the infrastructure for those engines and vehicles, going back to propane to get a sense of what those station configurations look like, here are some examples. This is from the Alternative Fuels Data Center. The first show a straightforward propane station. The storage tank is easily installed on any site that a fleet might need. Then there’s the dispenser and whatever tracking system needs to be installed. Then for liquefied natural gas, it doesn't look too much different, but that storage tank is different and showing because it is more likely to be a heavy duty. And then for CNG, there are two configurations. I'm showing one of them. Here is the time-fill station. This is an overnight fill, so it is more likely to be considered by a fleet that returns to base and has predictable operations to come back and fuel it at the end of the shift. It is not the kind of station that you will see for more long-distance travel. The other type of station is the kind that would be needed for a long route. It provides a quicker fill, but there is more storage on-site. They need more powerful compressors, and storage, so the time-fill option is more economical.
Moving away from liquid and gas and into the electrification side of things. The range is a very significant consideration for any freight fleet. I wanted to show this example from the International Council on Clean Transportation. The chart here shows ranges of zero emission vehicles. It shows them in development or production broken down by class. So, the battery electric, the fuel-cell, and the plug-in electric fuel-cell. I did want to point out that this range is in kilometers. So, the 200 mark is equivalent to about 120 miles. So you can see the limitations for vehicles in freight right now is that range.
From there, moving into that hazy crystal ball, this may not be a complete list, with new announcements every day at this point. But I did want to capture what we know about vehicles under development, or in some cases commercially available. You will see some refuse trucks, and some class 4 and some class 5, listed in alphabetical order. We will hear from Ruan on their plans for the electric vehicle side. But the one getting the most buzz these days is the Tesla semi. There's nothing commercial yet, as of today. If folks have heard otherwise, please correct me. These are all in concept development testing on the fuel-cell side. There is exciting stuff coming out in the fuel-cell side.
Moving from the vehicles into the infrastructure for electrification, there is so much about hydrogen fueling infrastructure for heavy-duty vehicles that is unknown. But I did want to mention some considerations. First, big vehicles need big batteries, and those batteries need big power sources. Looking at what we see today, for comparison, a typical DC fast charger has a draw between 50 and 120 kilowatts, the superfast charger that is coming up now, such as those being installed by Electrify America, and that bumps the number up to 350 kilowatts. For a class 8 vehicle, like the Tesla Megacharger, that's 1.6 Megawatt. That is a significant jump. That has enormous capacity that is required for charging. It is a huge consideration. The placement of stations is relevant for both the plug-in and the fuel-cell vehicles. Some of the plans that we have seen have banked on centrally located fuel yards, not unlike what we see with natural gas. Others are looking at the opportunity with long-haul trucking, to develop a network of charging stations and networks of hydrogen stations concentrated in certain areas, and what are more likely to be the more trafficked areas.
Finally, the type of fueling infrastructure, there is the standard pull-up and plug-in model, but there are also some interesting demonstrations and testing being done on the dynamic charging options. So think of this as looking towards an “e-road.” The road has been electrified. Most of the testing has happened overseas, but in the U.S. there was a demonstration using overhead electric wire, in the LA Long Beach area, for port vehicles showed a one-mile highway in both directions near the port that tested that out. It is possible and all of these avenues are being explored and it is exciting to see where the market might go. As far as the catenary systems, they allow for greater range and smaller batteries. The vehicles used on e-roads would need to be equipped with electric drivetrains or hybrid drivetrains that would allow the vehicle to travel a greater range. There are a lot of different combinations to think about. Certainly, something like an e-road, would require significant planning and infrastructure investment. It all remains to be seen what exactly is going to happen.
I wanted to mention a couple programs and for you to consider these resources. There are many programs supporting alternative fuels in freight. These are just two examples. And these are two that I happen to know very well. The Clean Cities program is a national program that has been around for a long time. There are three different components, there's the part that Ruan is involved in, and at the local level, there is that network of 100 coalitions across the country, and many stakeholder engagements through those coalitions. They are also backed up at the national level. For example, Clean Cities is a host of the NGV Technology Forum. Hopefully, everybody on the line is familiar with the coalitions that are active near them. I encourage you to partner with them. It is helpful to know what is coming down the line in terms of the vehicle offerings and market dynamics. The EPA SmartWay Transport Partnership has been around for a while with a lot of information sharing. I did want to make a plug for an upcoming webinar that will likely be of interest to some of you on the phone. Coming up next week, it is the Freight Matters webinar and you can go to the SmartWay website for information on that.
Along that same line of thinking, there are more resources to follow up on in the Alternative Fuels Data Center. It is a comprehensive clearinghouse for all things alternative fuel. It applies for any on road applications, and much of the information from this presentation is from there. There is a lot of general information on the fuel, and the vehicles, and the infrastructure. Also, there are many tools and databases. At the beginning of the presentation, we mentioned cost is a consideration. For anyone looking to understand what incentives are available, there is a lot of that information in this database. They have financial incentives such as tax credits and rebates, and some non-monetary incentives. The team that I’m a part of at ICF maintains this database, if you have any questions, please reach out.
Another great resource, is the Station Locator, hopefully you are familiar with it if you have done any alternative fuels research. It is a little bit more dynamic with some new search functions, but this tool allows you to search for public and private alternative fuel stations across all fuel types. Natural gas is the example that I used here. There are different functionalities to map a route, and you can learn more about specifics in each station with access information. This is another resource that we help to maintain, so please reach out with any questions. There are also some great case studies, regional transport delivery is one that is up there with videos and more in-depth reports and publications. Tools, calculators, cost estimators, will also be helpful to you. We encourage you to hop onto the Alternative Fuel Data Center to take a look.
Relevant to this group, is the delivery service vehicles on this fleet application page. I did want to mention that this is a good stop along the way. It pulls from the existing database of available vehicles. And then this vehicle operation data, and at the bottom, you can see some of the case studies that I mentioned. Please take a moment to check all this out.
Another relevant resource that you may be aware of, is also at the DOT. This is the Alternative Fuels Corridors designation. These are some pending corridors. This is the LNG corridor map shown here. It includes some toolkits and resources around this idea. I mentioned in the notes that there are 44 states that include specific highway designations. There's a lot more information on the website. This is a great resource for everyone to be aware of.
Then, finally, there are a lot of great reports out there, and you can take time to sift through these things, but this happens to be a report that my colleagues had a hand in not too long ago. This is from the National Cooperative Highway Research Program and is a guide to deploying clean truck freight strategies. The operational strategies, the vehicles themselves, the infrastructure programs, and it also includes tools and a user guide to estimate the cost and benefits of different strategies. That is another publicly available resource that I encourage you to check out.
With that, I will end and I look forward to your questions on the line after our next presenter. Or feel free to follow up with me separately.
Jennifer Symoun
Thank you Stacy. Our next presentation will be given by James Cade of Ruan Transportation Management Systems. James is the Vice President of Fleet Services, for which his responsibilities include strategically managing Ruan’s fleet of more than 4,000 trucks and 8,000 trailers operating from more than two hundred and eighty sites throughout the USA. This includes asset management, procurement, fuel purchasing and management, alternative fuel programs, maintenance management and asset disposal. James has developed and managed various alternative fuel projects during his career, which included; CNG, LNG, Propane and electric powered vehicles.
James Cade
Thank you for the invitation today and the chance to talk a bit about what Ruan is doing in the area of alternative fuels. To begin with, when we talk about alternative fuels, I think it is helpful to understand what Ruan is and what we do. Ruan is a company founded in 1932. Our headquarters is in Des Moines, Iowa. Primarily, we are a dedicated contract transportation and supply chain solutions company. We have a nationwide footprint. There are certain industries that we target. And much of the sustainability efforts have been recognized by several entities in the public and private sectors.
I would like to talk about Ruan CNG. A lot of our business is more regional in nature. Alternative fuel works very well with that. We have multiple year contracts with fairly predictable routes. We may have some unique situations, but the majority of our operation is not weight sensitive. Generally, the annual miles average around 100,000 miles or more per piece of equipment. This would work as well with an inverse situation, that has erratic, heavy long routes with unknown future demand or very small total miles per year.
Next, we will look at a CNG natural gas fleet. We have a fleet of about 124 units. 84 of those trucks are involved with traditional CNG, meaning that it is taken from the ground, and pumped to a station and we onboard it onto the vehicles from there. RNG is a little bit different. We have 40 trucks in one operational area. Our fleet is basically domiciled in Iowa, Minnesota, Texas and Wisconsin. In Fair Oaks Farms, if you ever have a chance to travel between Indianapolis and Chicago, I would recommend that you stop in and have a grilled cheese sandwich at the Fair Oaks Farms facility, it is quite the place. Our customer, Fair Oaks Farms, has a very large dairy operation of 32,000 cows. They milk them daily. It is an anaerobic system, and it's very complicated, but basically, it takes the methane from the waste, refines it, and turns it into natural gas. Then, the natural gas is inserted into the pipeline and it runs along the Fair Oaks property. The fuel a mile down the road is withdrawn from the pipeline with a pumping station, and we load it onto our vehicles, to drive the engines. It is natural gas that comes from a different source, but it is still natural gas. The vehicles that we are using are lightweight, optimized for 52 thousand pounds. We move about 333,000 gallons of milk daily, and we've traveled about 60 million miles since 2011. This is our second round of vehicles for this customer. We did try a vehicle that went a little bit too far, and we are using a nine liter in this application to see if we can get 80,000 pounds with this CNG. That one didn't work very well, so in 2014, we replaced those trucks with a different unit, which was more commonplace in the CNG industry today. This RNG displaces well over 1 million gallons of diesel annually.
The fleet is performing as expected. I'll talk a little bit about the issues that we see here, but overall the fleet is performing very well and we have learned from this operation and implemented CNG operations at various other locations around the country. We started out with these trucks in late 2013, early 2014. These trucks are high mileage. We have 40 trucks, but we have 120 drivers, so they are constantly in motion. Typically, this operation will run about 220,000 miles a year on each truck. As a result, when we put this program together with their customer, we were planning on replacing them at the 500 to 600,000 mile range. Unfortunately, the price of diesel fuel dropped dramatically when we put these units in place, and as a result, the demand for CNG dropped as well. The plant availability of an aftermarket for all of these used trucks was nonexistent. Basically, we decided to sign them up for another three-year term. As we go through these vehicles, by the time we get to the end of their life, in late 2019, the vehicles will have 1.5 million miles per lease. We refurbish them, have engine overhauls, but we spent a lot of money to refurbish them and sign the backup. We now have them all refurbished, and they are again operating as expected.
We did participate with Cummins and this slide shows the facts on that system. This event was in Indianapolis in April 2017. This is an overview that was provided on the vehicle that we had parked there. There were a lot of comments and questions, it was a great event.
So let's look at CNG versus diesel decision-making. The challenges are a lot bigger than they were back in 2013. Several things that you may have to look at are the miles per year, the contract term, how long will the vehicle depreciate. The fuel assumptions are also completely different than what they were in 2013. In 2013, a typical truck in this type of operation might be looking at 6. miles per gallon on the diesel engine. One of the challenges that we are seeing with CNG, is the equivalence with diesel equivalence. When you look at the diesel gallon equivalent, it is lower on a per mile basis. Typically, you will see 5.5 on a CNG unit. It wasn't much different in 2013. But things have changed, diesel powered units have become more efficient, and it is not unusual to see 7.5 miles per hour on a diesel unit. Some of the other offsets is that diesel engine requires DES, and a CNG does not. Some of the fuel credits can be unstable. For example, the VETC has had a spotty history of being approved by Congress. We went through all of 2017 without VETC, and then in February, it was approved and then made retroactive so we are able to collect it. But most of 2017, we were not able to recognize that. On the upside, with the CNG, when you look at the DGE, it's a dollar less, and CNG is a lot more stable than diesel is. There are huge fluctuations in diesel. CNG is much more stable. Over the last year or so, it has come down slightly on it DGE basis. From a fuel perspective, it does look more attractive. On the other side, though the equipment shows that a CNG truck is more expensive than a diesel powered truck. A CNG truck would be 35% more expensive in acquisition than a diesel powered unit. You can get grants to offset that in some states. Some states are really encouraging, but they can be sporadic. The challenge with it is the residual assumption, like we made in 2013, when we assumed that there would be a market for CNG equipment, but when we found in 2017 and we looked at that, there was absolutely no market for used CNG equipment. So you would have to look at the point of a longer life in operation. Several companies that are using CNG are looking at eight-year lifespans for this equipment.
Maintenance costs are a little bit higher on a CNG unit. Other things that you would need to take into consideration are the stable fuel prices, but also they weigh more. We are seeing 1800 to 2200 heavier vehicles than we are seeing with diesel. On the upside, there are some states, about 25, that do provide a weight exemption for CNG. So they allow you go up to 82,000, whereas diesel weight would be limited at 80,000.
So next, we are going to look at the CNG and RNG station considerations. There are many accessible locations for class 8 vehicles. We have worked with Comdata also. CNG coming out of a pipeline comes out at a fairly low pressure and it needs to be compressed, so you need to make sure that you have compressors and dryers. CNG is high in moisture in the pipeline, and you need to make sure that you have dryers to take that out of the CNG itself. Then you also have to be able to charge at 8 to 14 GGE per minute. Mostly we talk about it as a diesel gallon equivalent. Also you need to be able to service multiple vehicles. Some places have developed their own private fueling stations, but Ruan has taken the stance that we are working with providers and entering into long-term agreements to help sustain the development of stations. So I think more public stations are being built, even though the demand is somewhat lacking due to the lower diesel prices.
You need to make sure you are working with someone who knows CNG. We have been limited in the dealers and companies that we work with. We've talked about the up charge for CNG over diesel. But the biggest issue, or not the biggest, but one of the things that you need to make sure is that you understand clearly the tank selection. There are multiple vendors out there for the tanks. We have experimented with several, and have determined which one we might go with moving forward. It is not the cheapest, but we think they have the best option and you can run into issues with systems that are not fully thought out. Cummins is basically the only one that is producing for the future. They are the first ones to have it and other manufacturers may have it in the near future.
Looking at maintenance, CNG maintenance is more intensive than diesel. We have averaged over 900,000 miles with several of the vehicles at Fair Oaks. They need to be looked at in 20 to 25,000 mile intervals, which is significantly shorter than diesel. You can't use a standard diesel oil. You would have to use a specific CNG oil. Spark plugs have to be replaced on a regular basis. We are doing those every 25 to 30,000 miles as well. Tank expectations is a real concern on the maintenance side, but CNG was originally developed for light duty applications and the current requirement for tank inspections states that the tank has to be inspected every year or every 36,000 miles, which on a CNG truck for our Fair Oaks operation is 4 to 5 times a year. This is a burden overall on the industry. We are working through the maintenance council, to appeal to have that reduced and just do an annual inspection.
We have a lot of history and background, and based off of our experience we do believe that a CNG truck operates about two cents a mile above diesel. That includes inspection costs. Our experience with other renewable fuels is on the next slide. We have used biodiesel in other states. For example, in Minnesota, there is a requirement, but we have tried in other states, and we can run up to 20% biodiesel in some applications. They have similar performance in the vehicle. We do see that in cold weather we do need to reduce that number going forward. There have been some tax benefits to using biodiesel. But there are some concerns in running it in cold weather.
Another fuel that we have started working with is renewable hydrocarbon diesel. RHD is made from methanol and we have seen some dramatic improvements in vehicle operation and the cleanliness of the engine. It can be blended with diesel or biodiesel. It does not require any modifications to the engine. It helps with lubricity, and it has a low sulfur content. There are some great benefits the we are seeing from RHD. We are really impressed with what we are seeing in this operation.
Also, we can look at electrification. Like many fleets, we are interested in electric and we have been talking with many companies. We've talked with most of the companies that were listed in the previous presentation. We've been using yard trucks, and we are looking at adding more. The issue there, is that they are significantly more expensive than a diesel powered unit. We are addressing some of that through grants from different states. We are very impressed with what we are seeing so far. One of the problems with yard trucks is that with the diesel engine, they still need to meet the emission levels. With low speed and low temperatures, like most yard trucks, the diesel engines don't perform very well. They can be troublesome and maintenance intensive. We have looked at electrification of the trucks as a way to get around that. And we've been really impressed with what we've seen.
Also, another area that is developing in electrification, is the onboard electrification. If you look at the complexity of vehicles today, and the extensive amounts of parasitic draws off of the battery systems as well as the mechanical draws, such as the alternators, power steering, and AC systems, and there's a question if they can all be converted to electric onboard systems. Instead of having an engine driving the AC system, you would have an electric motor driving the fan. It would also power the power steering and other accessories on the vehicle. Even with the 12 volt system, but we might not see much of that until the system moves to a 48 volt system which is probably going to be in the next few years. The 48 volt power system will help be able to move all those accessories to electric motor driven systems. Also in the future, we are looking at electric powertrains and class 8 vehicles.
We listened to what Tesla was saying, and we have signed up and have five units on order. We don't believe it might be the whole answer, but it is too intriguing not to be involved and partnered with. It has the potential, in my opinion, to revolutionize the regional and local delivery markets. There are a few challenges to get past. But we don't want to stay on the sidelines and let somebody else figure out. We wanted to make sure that we were involved, which is why we put five units on order with Tesla. There are many challenges with electrification. Electrification concerns are basically in infrastructure. There has been a lot of discussion, and Tesla has been very involved in getting their superchargers out. They have a strong network around that. But that is not what is needed for the heavy truck market. So we need to know what the infrastructure would look like. How long does it take to charge a battery? Are the batteries going to take 30 minutes as some have mentioned? Will it take multiple hours? In our electric yard trucks, one of the challenges was the charge time. We have to take them out of service for 5 to 6 hours at a time to recharge. Not everybody can do that. That is one of the challenges. Is there somewhere in between, that we could find to charge the batteries on the vehicles. Then there's also the cost of the charging stations. We're looking at $1 billion for charging stations and some may need multiple stations. That's where some of the concerns are. Also, in the infrastructure side, what is the impact on a fast or slow charge on a battery? We've had numerous conversations with Tesla, and others that has talked about past charges not being doable. Tesla has different opinions. So it will be interesting to see how that plays out. The cost of the acquisition compared to diesel is something to consider. It appears that some of these concept vehicles have less moving parts than a diesel engine and it will take a different skill set to work on them. There are many unknowns in that area. Then there's also the cost of the electricity to recharge the battery. The cost of electricity varies across the country. But it also matters by time of day. The price can swing and triple in some places depending on the time of day that you are recharging. Do we charge batteries only during low demand times? Is this whole thing around electricity and its cost, electricity has a high fluctuation depending on the time of day or the week that you are charging. And that's not a consideration for diesel. And then the range is the question. How far will it last? How far can I go on a battery charge?
For it to be viable in our operation, we have to see ranges on a heavy-duty vehicle, pulling a 70 to 80,000 pound combination weight vehicle. We have to see 300 mile ranges to be able to see it viable in our fleet. Some say that they can do it, but others say no, and that will need to be worked through. we also have some difference in the driver behaviors. We have some good drivers and some not so great drivers. And is it that behavior that impacts the range? That is the reason that we have five vehicles on order. For most of us, most of our operations are not weight sensitive. If you look at the Tesla, with FedEx and UPS, that may not be as weight sensitive, they are not as concerned about the capacity as others, because they can have larger orders. I've seen estimates as high as 19,000 pounds heavier than a diesel powered vehicle, and some as low as being almost the same. There's a big difference with opinions out there in how much weight can be capable on an electric vehicle. Most of the weight would be toward the weight of the vehicle, and how would that affect steering and drive axle with the weight distribution?
In closing, on electrification, we are very encouraged, and we think it could be a game changer. But there are a lot of unknowns and questions that have to be answered before we can say that electrification is going to be the future of everything in transportation. With that, I will turn the time back over to our moderator.
Jennifer Symoun
Thank you James. I’d now like to start off the Q&A session with the questions posted online. Once we get through those questions, if time allows I’ll open up the phone lines for questions.
The first question is from a Long Distance trucking perspective (coast to coast (I-10, I-80 etc) what does an LNG or CNG fueling network build out look like?
Stacy Noblet
In terms of miles, the distance between stations, the FHWA alternative fuels corridors, there is a good marker for a corridors to be considered ready, meaning a vehicle can go through that segment without any problems. For CNG, it is 150 miles between stations, between fast-fill stations. And on the LNG side, it is 200 miles. Another consideration is that several years ago, clean energy announced plans for what was referred to as America's natural gas highway, and that was a long-distance plan geared toward the trucking industry for liquified gas only, and that was looking at 200 to 300 miles between each station. I know that clean energy and a lot of other infrastructure developers are looking to ideally place those stations where trucks are already stopping. Like the Flying Js or travel centers across the nation’s major highways. I hope that's what you're looking for the answer. In terms of placement, and co-location of existing stations, that is what we have seen in the plans.
James Cade
I would say that there are some companies out there that are doing long hauls with transportation. I know one fleet with multiple trucks moving from Ontario, Canada to Laredo on a regular basis. It takes planning and effort but it is possible.
Jennifer Symoun
The next question, do the various gas fuel storage tanks have to be above ground, or can they be buried?
Stacy Noblet
Biodiesel is both, it can be above or below. There are some standards and certifications in terms of that tank type in each case. For propane, typically above, not sure that we are seeing many below ground. Hydrogen needs to be above and natural gas needs to be above. In general, most of them are above ground, with the exception of the biodiesel that we mentioned.
James Cade
Most of our tanks in the states where we can with the biodiesel, we try to do them above ground. All CNG is above ground. I'm not aware of any CNG or LNG belowground.
Jennifer Symoun
The next question, what types of modifications need to be made to truck maintenance facilities to accommodate CNG and LNG. What is the typical costs for upgrading the shops to handle natural gas powered trucks?
Stacy Noblet
I can point you to a resource for those interested. Thorough the alternative fuels data web site, there is a report, the modification handbook can address that question. In general, the facilities design, the modifications are centered around if the natural gas is released and if it ignites and to make sure that doesn't happen. It's all about ventilation, making sure that any released gas can get out, electrical wiring, space heating, methane detection, are all around that. The handbook provides a pretty wide range and if Jim has more firsthand experience, I'll let him speak to that. But the range was between 45,000 to 100,00 per bay, and that can be lower or higher based on the size of the facility, existing conditions, the age of the building, the climate, there are many variables. That is a broad range to give you.
James Cade
That's pretty close. We modified some facilities in 2014/2015 and it was about $60,000 per location. Some of that was related to the standards and guidelines, but some of it was depending on the local fire marshal or state requirements. We have run into a couple of times in some locations where even though we were following traditional or national recognized standards, some of the local requirements were even more stringent. If you're thinking about doing that, make sure you bring the fire marshal or local representative into the discussion. That way you won't have any surprises at the end.
Jennifer Symoun
Thank you. Stacy, I think you answered this question. Does Florida offer weight exceptions for CNG?
Stacy Noblet
Yes, they do. There is an incentives database. And those states that have the weight exceptions on the books are called out on the incentive category. If you're curious, hop on there. In the database you can go into each state to see if they have called it out. There is a federal level exemption, making it possible so that the state can put that in place. There has recently been some guidance released by FHWA. If you are curious about a state-by-state basis, check out that database.
Jennifer Symoun
Thank you, another question. For CNG trucks, are there monitoring regimes in place for methane slip?
James Cade
One of things that I mentioned, is that there is a required tank inspection which is currently set at 36,000 miles. We actually even lower that further and do PM inspections. You have to look at the fittings, different things on the vehicle. There are visual inspections that are required and done, but as far as any onboard monitoring systems, there are none.
Jennifer Symoun
Thank you. Are you familiar with Ruan’s truck carrier model for EPA’s SmartWay program, and if so, how do the alt fuel trucks in your fleet help your emissions scores for SmartWay?
James Cade
Yes, we are a SmartWay partner and it does help significantly. Each year, we make our filings based on our reductions. As we have grown our CNG fleet, it has a very positive impact on our ranking.
Jennifer Symoun
I don't see any more additional questions. If anyone wants to ask a question over the phone, you can press star five and I can open up your phone line. I will wait a few seconds and see if we have any more questions on the phone. It looks like we do have one. Hold on one second.
Caller from North Carolina DOT
Thank you for your time and knowledge. For the gentleman that asked about methane slip, we came across a maritime research study at the University of Delaware and RIT that talked about some of that, at least in the maritime LNG field. I thought that might be some relevant reading material for you.
Jennifer Symoun
Thank you, we appreciate that. Anybody else who would like to press star five, I can open up your line. All right, let's see here. We do have one more question. James, can you share where you get your renewable diesel?
James Cade
We work with a company called REG - Renewable Energy Group. That's the company that we are working with.
Jennifer Symoun
Thank you. Here's another question. What has Ruan done in terms of connected vehicle technology?
James Cade
That's an interesting topic. All of our vehicles are currently connected through our local operations with the satellite communications and cellular communication, and onboard recorders. We recently are working with Freightliner, who is our primary provider, working on new developments around Detroit to connect. We are working to enhance our capabilities of downloading data off of the vehicles. Not just off of the engine, but from the driver and other systems on the vehicle that we are currently not able to have access to. We have several projects in line with that, but nothing other than what we have in our onboard satellite and cellular systems right now.
Jennifer Symoun
Thank you. I don't see any other questions at this point. Let's take a few more seconds to see if there's any additional questions. Are there any technician or manager forums for truck fleets that use various alt fuels to get together to share experiences & puzzle through problems, and even undertake collective projects?
James Cade
For alternative fuels, one of the best one out there that I’ve been involved with, is the Technology and Maintenance Council of the American Trucking Association. Through their efforts, they are continually educating the industry. They have several projects working with various suppliers and fleets on helping to develop the technology, and also expanding the knowledge base of technicians to be prepared for these changes that are coming. I would say that the Technology Maintenance Council is a great resource.
Stacy Noblet
I think TMC is a great resource. The Clean Cities program that I mentioned, at least at the local level, the coalitions do bring together fleet managers of course. They also offer maintenance and technician trainings. That's another opportunity to get those people together and reach out to them after the training. As far as a national level, I would agree with Jim on the TMC.
Jennifer Symoun
Thank you. What is Ruan doing regarding platooning to increase fuel efficiency?
James Cade
Very little, we are working on the technology. We're talking about doing some testing. The challenge with platooning for us is that most of our operations are not long-haul. Most of our operations do not have multiple vehicles going to the same locations. For us, to be able to use it for platooning our own vehicles is not something that would have much impact on our operations. I think the ability to interact with other fleets has the potential. I think there are a lot of questions around that still as far as being able to platoon with other vehicles from other fleets and who gets the lead, who gets to follow. How does it set up? We are interested in participating and have had some conversations with various companies and various people who are pursuing this technology. But we have not done any large-scale testing at this point.
Jennifer Symoun
Thank you. To the gentleman from North Carolina that spoke over the phone, can you please restate where you found that maritime study?
North Carolina Caller
We’ll put a link in the chat.
Jennifer Symoun
Here is another question. Does the TMC interface directly with any corridor coalitions (I-80, I-95, etc.), or with FHWA’s Alt Fuel Corridor designation program, regarding planning for generally-accessible accommodations, including fueling?
James Cade
Yes, I believe so, there has been presentations made by the corridor entities at TMC meetings and a lot of discussion and education about this going on. The ATA is also very much involved in those groups and discussions.
Jennifer Symoun
I think that is all the questions we have today so we will go ahead and close out. Thank you, Stacy and James, for presenting and thank you all for attending today’s seminar. The recorded version of this event will be available within the next few weeks on the Talking Freight website. Information will be sent soon about the May Talking Freight seminar. The Freight Planning LISTSERV is the primary means of sharing information about upcoming seminars. I encourage you to join the Freight Planning LISTSERV if you have not already done so.
